Issue #3 “The odds are stacked against journalists”
Danny Gold talks about reporting from conflict zones and gets frank about his feelings towards the industry these days.
Photo: Yarden Haddi, Artwork: Uncredited
Welcome to perspectivves, a newsletter dedicated to sparking conversations about all things digital media and journalism.
Danny Gold is a journalist who wears many hats. He’s a correspondent, producer and director covering stories about crime, conflict and politics. You may have come across his reporting from places like Iraq, Gaza during the Israeli-Hamas conflict of 2014, and gang-strongholds in El Salvador. Danny was one of the first staff hires at Vice News, and has freelanced for such publications as The Guardian, HBO, and The New Yorker. Now, he’s sharing with us some of the lessons he’s learned out in the field and what he thinks about the media industry these days. We reached him in New York.
Ziv: How did you begin your journey of reporting in conflict zones?
Danny: You know, I wasn’t going into Aleppo right off the bat. I was going into northern Iraq and then I was going into Rojava [in Syria]. Those were far less intense situations. They were the kind of thing where you can wet your feet in terms of how dangerous the situation is [and] how to move in those places. Once you build that up you can take it a little bit further and then a little bit further. But some [journalists] start off doing metro reporting and they end up getting sent somewhere. It’s all different [for each person]. Unfortunately, it’s really tough now. I wouldn’t know how to advise someone to get started [in this] now, but I would definitely say don’t go right away for the obvious story. Don’t go right away for the most chaotic story.
Ziv: Vice seems to be really good at putting reporters into intense conflict zones. For example, you went to report for them in Gaza during the Israeli-Hamas War in 2014.
Danny: It’s not Vice that was doing that. It’s the reporters there that are on the ground and the locals that are there that are helping you out. I got into Gaza because I had a [colleague at Vice News that had previously reported on] Israel named Andrew Glazer. He was well connected in Israel so he had a good fixer for us and that fixer was able to arrange things so that we could get into Gaza. That’s not Vice that is unique in doing that. What Vice had, for the most part, was a budget. And if you have a budget, and you’re with a really resourceful reporter or producer, you can make a lot of things happen.
Ziv: You said you got in touch with a fixer. What is it like to prepare for that and to prepare for an overall day of reporting out in the field?
Danny: Different people do it in different ways. I would advise people to have situational awareness and know who the players on the ground [are]. If you are in a pretty hectic place, talk with other journalists. See what they’ve been doing. Or talk to your fixer who’s well connected on the ground. Talk to officials in the area or contacts you have and try to suss out the situation.
Ziv: How do you psychologically come to terms with dangerous and uncertain situations where you put your life at risk?
Danny: In the situation in Gaza [for example], you’re not really able to prepare yourself. It’s chaotic [and] you don’t know what’s going on. You just have to experience it. A lot of the time it’s not as scary as it appears. Like in El Salvador, I have to worry a lot less because nobody wants a dead American reporter on their hands there. If I am reporting in Syria it is a lot more worrying because I am a target. But [in] a place like El Salvador there’s a certain level of privilege that you have there as an American reporter who’s visibly white, where no one wants you dead because it’s going to bring a lot of heat on them. Also, it’s about pushing yourself a little bit more and a little bit more [in these dangerous situations] until you get more comfortable. You do your best to mitigate risk.
Ziv: How do you gain the trust of the people you interview? Specifically those who are involved with criminal activity?
Danny: In some situations it’s not as challenging to get them to open up as you would think because they are arranged by a fixer who probably has a previous relationship with them. They’ve got a point they may want to get across. I think a lot of it has to do with the way you approach people and your rapport with them. You have to naturally get good at not being uncomfortable in certain situations. I got a lot of experience with that when I was a street reporter reporting for newspapers in New York; because every day you’re on the street talking to random people and you just have to get really good at establishing a relationship with them within 30 seconds, and come across in a way that’s not patronizing or insulting or standoffish and get them to want to talk to you. You know, sometimes it’s as easy as [starting the conversation with] a stupid joke or dropping a fact about their culture or the history of what you’re dealing with, or whatever else it is that shows them that you’ve done your research and you know what’s going on. I fully embrace code-switching. Do whatever you can. Your job isn’t to look impressive to other people. It’s to get [someone] to talk to you so you do whatever you can to get them to talk to you.
Ziv: What is code-switching?
Danny: I did a documentary with gangs in St. Louis [Missouri]. I’m not gonna talk to [gang members] in St. Louis that are selling drugs and carrying guns the same way I’m going to talk to a politician.
Ziv: In your interviews with people involved in criminal activities and even murders, how important is it for you to showcase their humanity?
Danny: It’s tough. An essential goal that I have when covering a story that involves people like that is to get [the audience] to relate; who don’t know anything about the life [these subjects] are leading or the culture they’re in or the society they are a part of or what their struggles are. At the same time, you don’t want to spend too much time humanizing people who have done horrible things. It’s tough to find that line where you want to address people as human beings and three-dimensional characters, but you also want to make sure that you are not giving a sympathetic portrayal of someone who's done some awful things. And the more time you have the better. I don’t want to reduce people to sound bites and stereotypical characters and people who say exactly what you expect them to say.
Ziv: I’d like to ask you about objectivity in reporting and approaching a story without bringing your personal biases and life experiences to those stories. How did you go about doing that?
Danny: You don’t want to be bullshitted. If [an interview subject] tells me something that I know is not true you want to pushback. But I had a really good producer who told me that this isn’t about you. It’s about getting the people who you’re talking to, to show you who they are and why they think what they think. I try to let people do that. At the same time, you don’t want to be a pushover. But if people feel a certain way, find out why they feel that way and find out what has led them to believe what they believe.
Ziv: I learned that your grandmother spent three years in the Auschwitz death camp during the Holocaust. How did her story and your relationship with her inform the way you cover stories of people in, say, war-torn countries?
Danny: That’s a good question. All four of my grandparents were survivors [of the Holocaust], but [my grandma] was the only one in the [concentration] camps. I think it definitely affects the way I look at these stories and why I get passionate about [subjects] like the Rohingya, or the Syrian conflict, the Yazidis...things like that because I have a shared family history with people in those situations. It’s part of the inspiration for why I started doing this [and] for what interests me in the subjects that I cover [like] ethnic conflict. It plays a huge role in how I view the world.
Yarden: In 2020, how do you view the profession of journalism and the role it plays in society?
Danny: I think the industry itself is failing. The odds are stacked against journalists right now. You have Fox News, you have social media, you have such a divided country and such a divided world where nothing happens in good faith anymore. Everyone always assumes the worst intentions; it’s a really challenging atmosphere. I just see a lot of bad journalism. This is a question I think about a lot and financially speaking, it’s just a nightmare. I mean who can survive doing this? I know so many good journalists that have stopped being journalists that are going into PR because the money isn’t there. Look, the country is divided and then you have media that springs up [and] caters to the worst impulses of everyone on every spectrum. You have fringe left and fringe right and people want [coverage that reinforces] their views. And there’s a rush to get a headline out there that’s going to get attention or confirm someone’s preferred narrative.
This interview was edited for brevity and clarity.
About the creators:
Yarden Haddi: Student of the Image Arts Centre at Ryerson University.
Ziv Haddi: Graduate of the Master of Media in Journalism and Communication program at Western University. Former intern at 680 News at Rogers Media and q on CBC Radio. Currently producing a current affairs program on Zoomer Radio.